Episode 65 | The Secret to Better Collaboration is Learning to Disagree

Hello, hello. You're listening to the Better Workday podcast with me, Niamh Moynihan. Welcome back to the podcast. How are you doing? If you are new here, a very warm welcome to you. This is the Better Workday podcast. And on this podcast, I try to share practical, actionable ways for you to prove the way that you work, which I hope will benefit not just your workday, but of course, every element of your life. And if you've been here for a while, thank you for coming back.

I hope you are finding these podcast episodes valuable and helpful in your work day. Now, today I want to talk about the concept of psychological safety at work and why it is so important to collaboration.

Niamh Moynihan (00:46.4)
I have been delivering workshops over the last, I would say, six months that have taken a very interesting turn. So in the past, a lot of the workshops would have been focused on communication. And now they are evolving into not just being able to communicate with each other, but actually collaborating with other people, which isn't always the same thing. And I love this because, of course, it doesn't matter how well you communicate, you actually need to be able to do the work together as well. Right. And

I was delivering one of these workshops to a senior leadership team a while back, lovely team, really experienced and it could tell they were really good together as well. Like they definitely good, you know, they did good work in relationships. But anyway, we're talking about this idea of working together and being able to move things forward, you know, to be able to kind of achieve those projects, get those stretch goals achieved and all that kind of stuff. You know, some people mentioned that even in a strong working group like this, that

They felt that they couldn't always disagree with other people or point out mistakes because of how it might be received. So, you know, trying to talk to people in other teams and say that didn't go well or that was wrong. And we're talking about this because without being able to have those honest conversations, it is harder to collaborate and harder to get the work finished. so communication is a core part of that, of course. You you have to be able to phrase

your concern or phrase your feedback properly. But below that is the importance of psychological safety. All right. And that's why I want to talk about it today. So when it comes to psychological safety, that belief that, you know, if you do speak up with an idea, a question, a concern, or maybe you make a mistake, that you're not going to be punished or humiliated or embarrassed. You know, and I remember when I first started working in this area, you know, back in 2019,

I didn't even know what this word meant. Like I thought it was, you know, being able to go to your manager if you made a huge mistake, you know, or yeah, basically that was it, you know, or if you kind of made a big fumble at a presentation that, you know, you wouldn't be pointed and laughed at, right. But what I have found, which of course it's not, it's not as black and white as that. Of course, over the years, what I've realized it's actually in the small moments. It's being able to say, I don't think that's a good idea.

Niamh Moynihan (03:11.122)
or I spotted that mistake, let's get it fixed as quick as we can. being able to say that or being able to say, yeah, sorry. Actually, that was me changing the comma in that number. It should have been in a different place. And being able to say that without stressing or feeling anxious or feeling worried about what are they going to say about me. And so when we think about it that way, psychological safety is the part of the very fabric of the workday because none of us are perfect.

in our work, none of us goes through life and our careers without making mistakes or, you know, without needing, you know, other people's opinions or ideas. And so really it's about not avoiding conflict at work, about being able to trust each other and being open and not feeling you have to be nice all the time in order to be successful in work. OK, that you can have a healthy debate, a healthy conversation. Now, one of the most popular books, I think, in this area, and I just want to mention today is

Radical Candor, that's Kim Scott's framework and she put it into a book. And it's really nice because it's very, very simple. It's basically care personally and challenge directly. And I love that because, you know, I definitely want to continue to be a nice person, to be friendly with people that I work with and that particular group I was having that workshop with, they were the same, right? So they were saying, look, you know, we want to get along. We don't want to lose the value of our friendships, the value of the relationships.

But yet we still need to have the conversations to move things forward. so that idea of, you know, being able to have a conversation about what needs to be done, but to be considerate of other people is a good balance. And that balance is very important because if you only challenge without caring about what other people feel or think, you know, that's just going to create a culture of fear, which, you know, isn't good.

And then if you only try to keep everyone happy without challenging them, we get avoidance. And that's what I see a lot. know, people just all trying to get along and avoiding the problems in the room because they just, I don't know, they just don't want to rock the boat. And what's interesting about that, to be honest with you, is I see quite a lot of people, and let me know if this resonates with you, that people are creating workarounds or they're working longer hours or they're putting in extra effort or

Niamh Moynihan (05:33.016)
They're trying a hundred different ways to fix something and they're trying everything except having a conversation. know, like you're trying every way to do it without rocking the boat. And like, I just think that's a huge amount of your time and energy expended when you could have a conversation and when it's done well, then everyone benefits, you know. But, know, you can only do that when people feel that they can be honest and supportive when they're honest, you know. Now,

When it comes to psychological safety, there are quite a few things that get in the way of it. Like it's very easy for me to be sitting here, you know, in my home office saying, you know, balance caring personally for other people with being able to challenge them so that, you know, we can move forward together to be able to do your best work together. It sounds lovely, right? But of course, in the real world, there are lots of things that get in the way of that. And, you know, I think one of the obvious ones is hierarchical.

structures and organizations that fear of, you know, challenging the boss. And definitely when I was in corporate, I had that fear, you know, like even if they made what I thought was a ridiculously stupid suggestion or stupid decision, like there was no way I was going to say, I think that's the wrong idea. Instead, I would bend over backwards, literally, you know, trying to make their suggestion work. I have so many examples of this because my background is in operations and I would have worked a lot.

with data and metrics and reports and stuff. And so I remember working hours and hours just trying to fit things into what people wanted because I had been afraid to push back. So, you know, if that's you, you're definitely not the only one, you know, that at least I have experienced that as well. But if that's the case, then we have to have a conversation as leaders around why is that culture continuing in our organization?

But even if you do work in a company where they're like, no, look, obviously there is, you know, leadership levels and stuff like that. But we do want genuine conversations. You might have been burnt in the past. So you might have been burnt in a previous role in a previous company in a previous relationship, you know, where you're like, I've done this. I have, you know, admitted to the mistake or I have challenged the discussion and it hasn't worked out well for me. So, you know, I'm not taking that risk again. And

Niamh Moynihan (07:54.314)
I completely understand that. And if that is the case, then it really is up to you to decide if you want to take a small step forward in being a little bit more direct and honest and challenging. And it's up to your team to be considerate and kind and respectful of your effort. So it really is a group thing, you know. And then look, you also have the cultural aspect of it. So we have cultures in terms of your background.

We've got cultures in terms of organizations and then we have cultures in terms of the team. So we might have some teams that are very direct, very, you know, focused on the data, the facts, the actions to be done. And, you know, they have no problem at all having a direct conversation because it's not personal. It's literally about the stuff. And then there's other teams within the exact same organization that are like, no, we just want to get along and we want to be

creative together and we don't want to disrupt what we do by causing or by creating those kind of conversations. And again, neither are perfect, you know, so it's important for us to maybe recognize the culture that we're working in. And I think the first step in all of this stuff anyway is recognizing where you're at, with who, and then deciding how much you want to change.

And just the last point on this in terms of barriers is just to point out that I know it can be harder if you're working in different locations to your colleagues to, you know, maybe re tone or understand what people are trying to say. And it can lead to misinterpretation. honestly, hybrid and remote working and distributed workforces, they're not going away. You know, they're not. So that's why, as I mentioned earlier, communication and us.

you know, taking the time to become better communicators is so important and having a little bit of patience and little bit of grace can go a long way on that one. So I just don't think that's a deal breaker, to be honest. think, you know, that's going to be here to stay and we are well able, all of us, to be able to have honest, open conversations regardless of where our team are. So if you are thinking that, yeah, OK, Niamh, this is resonating with me.

Niamh Moynihan (10:14.318)
You know, in my team, we get on really well, but there's definitely some stuff that like, if we're able to have a more direct conversation, things will be a lot easier. There are a few things that you can do, right? And yes, you can do this for your leader, but I think you can do it regardless of your role in any team, because I think anyone can set the example. So, you know, if you feel comfortable, you can start admitting mistakes, even if it's tiny mistakes, you know, even if it's like, oh my God, I had to.

Resend that email because I forgot the attachment. Like just start there. But nearly more importantly is to invite a conversation, invite a debate. Right. So you could ask, you know, what am I missing from this? Who sees this differently to me? Who has a different opinion? Would someone like to disagree with me? I'd love to hear a different perspective. You know, I use that a lot in my workshop. I say to people, I love when people disagree with me because we can have a conversation and we can end up

with a result that is better for everyone. And once I invite them in, sometimes people do disagree with me and it's great because then we do have the conversation. So maybe you're the one to let people know I am OK with you pointing out the holes in my idea. Right. And then, of course, you know, just acknowledge those contributions. So even if, know, you don't adopt their idea or go what they say, just say thank you so much for it. You know what I mean? And encourage it again.

and say, do want to continue to have this kind of dialogue with you. And then just kind of finally, if you're having meetings and stuff like that, you know, maybe agree on ground rules to say, look, we want some disagreement, maybe even have a section of the meeting that is for different opinions and stuff and just make a part of the work if that makes sense to you. But look, today, what you could do for yourself is you could ask yourself, do people feel safe?

disagreeing with me. Have a look in the mirror and ask yourself that. And then if you want to be a little bit experimental this week, you could intentionally invite a challenge or a different perspective from somebody. I think that would be really, really good for you if you want to practice this stuff. So look, I'll put the links to some books related to this into the show notes. So do check those out. The link will be the description. And if you found this helpful, please share this with somebody who you think will benefit from it.

Niamh Moynihan (12:39.296)
or maybe even share with your team and have a conversation around it. And until next time, stay well and have a better work day.