Episode 44 | Special Guest Episode: David Burke of Workhuman

In this week's special episode, Niamh is joined by David Burke of Workhuman to discuss what makes a better workday, and how Workhuman helps companies create better workdays through employee recognition and engagement.

 

Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Better Workday podcast. How are you doing?

 

Today, I am delighted to have the wonderful David Burke from Workhuman on as my special guest. Now, before I introduce David, I just want to tell you how I met him.

 

And it was last year when he was speaking at a conference in Cork. And do you know what? I was just blown away by how much he actually cared, not only about the company and what you do, which I know David's going to tell you about in a second, but about his team.

 

Like, standing up on that stage, you could feel it. And I just think we need more people like that in the world. You know, at this stage, I call them my Better Workday champions.

 

And so when David agreed to come on the podcast, I was just delighted. So David, welcome to the Better Workday podcast. How are you doing? Yeah, great, Niamh. Thanks for having me. Delighted to be here. Good, good, good. So, I mean, it's our second time officially meeting since that time back in Cork, and it is lovely to, to see you again.

 

Do you want to start by telling people a little bit about you and a little bit about the company that you work for? Sure.

 

So if you saw my email signature, it would read David Burke, Um, Uncool Dad, Uh, Functional Fitness Head, uh, Blithesome by Nature.

 

Um, so, and then it would say my job title, which is Global Head of Talent Acquisition and Employer Brand here at Workhuman. So we intentionally, uh, you know, display ourselves internally and externally to the world in that order. We like to put the, the person front and center.

 

So that's who I am as a person. I guess what I do here, I work for Workhuman. Um, hopefully everyone has heard of us. We're an Irish-founded global SaaS company. Um, and essentially our products are in the HR tech space, but we help organizations build more human-centric workplaces.

 

So we do that through a number of ways that primary focus is on employee recognition and engagement, which helps, you know, foster cultures of appreciation and belonging. Um, and then we've got some super exciting, uh, product announcements coming in the next month or two, which we're very excited about, which is all focused on using the power of that recognition data, uh, and applying that to the skills world, the people skills, so all our human intelligence. So we're very excited about that. Now that, that does sound exciting. So two things. So before we move on. Mm-hmm. Functional fitness. So is that like, is that like CrossFitty stuff, or what? Yeah. So, so I wouldn't say I'm a purist CrossFit

 

2, T2. I tend to welch at the harder stuff, so yeah. But, but yeah, exactly. Throwing some, some weights around and getting out of breath on cardio machines. And isn't it funny, because I like to do a little bit of strength training, and I'm a, a walky runny person. I don't fully run. But isn't it true that, like, if you're having a tough day at work, 'cause we are talking about having a better workday, just being able to go and lift a few weights and work up a bit of a sweat really does clear the head, doesn't it?

 

It really does. I mean, I always played sports, but I had to finish playing football mid-40s. Just the knee wouldn't take it anymore. And, and then I found this thing. And for me, it, it... Like, for, for everybody, some movement, some exercise is a absolute necessary, you know, life component.

 

And for me, it just, it burns away all the stress, all the tension, you know. That, that sometimes you don't even know is there. So yeah, for me, it's, it, it has become like a, a, you know, a, a kind of core part of my week, and it's something I protect, you know, at all costs in terms of calendar, so... That's good to know, because I do talk an awful lot about boundaries and breaks of that's important. So it's like, it's like I've told you today, this stuff, Dave.

 

Um, and the second thing was around the employee recognition. So, as we said before, um, uh, we started recording, I used to work in the tech sector for about 15 years.

 

And does that mean then that when I wanted to... Let's say somebody in another team was working on a project with me and they did a really good job, but they, they don't take compliment very well. And I wanted to make sure everyone knew, ma- mainly their manager knew that they did a good job, you know. Is that how I'd use the software- Yeah. ... to do that stuff? Yeah. So it's basically just a mechanism to allow everybody in the company to recognize each other. And that, like, you know, can be about the work, and oftentimes is. And it can be something small, seemingly inconsequential, like I needed some help for preparing for a meeting, you helped me out.

 

Um, or it could be something big, you delivered a big piece of transformation or, or project work. But, but crucially, the, the product also allows people to celebrate, you know, um, life events, new babies, homes, pets. Oh, lovely. Especially through COVID.

 

Um, and then service milestones as well. So, so essentially it's championing and celebrating the whole person and not just the work they do. So, so the what they do, but also how they do it and who they are as a person.

 

Um, so essentially it's just fostering, you know, better connections, better visibility, so people who are seen feel like they belong. Um, and essentially that's, you know, a, a core component, not the only component of, you know, what the, the recognition, um, product kind of delivers for business.

 

I'm starting to see a theme now. So it's Workhuman and the human is like a much bigger font. Yeah. The human is the big part. So I suppose that, that does lead me on, um, to asking you the question I ask everybody in surveys, in rooms, and on the podcast.

 

What does a better workday mean to you? Well, it wasn't the M50 commute this morning. In, in the rain, and I'm someone, I always, whenever we have days like that, I always think, "Well, look, whoever's involved in those collisions is having a worse day than me, so like, let's be thankful for the extra space and time on your own with no kids in the car." So I'm always appreciative of that.

 

But I guess, like, for me, like, a better work day, and this may be a bit cliché, but, like, it's, it's one where people, as a leader anyway, it's where people truly feel connected to their work and the people around them, and just they've a really strong sense of purpose, you know, about what the organization's doing and their role in it.

 

So, you know, my part in that really is just, uh, to remove any friction so that people can focus on, you know, their meaningful contributions and not get bogged down in, you know, getting the work advanced or having unfair priorities. Yeah. Um, so I take that role very seriously, and then, you know, the, the linchpin of that is just around psychological safety. So, you know, the, obviously we're in an environment which is very aligned to that, but when people feel, you know, valued, heard, and supported, they do their best work. So from a, as a leader, that's the, you know, better work day cr- curating and being responsible for that is something I take very seriously. But personally, I guess for me, it's all of that, but it's, it's fun. Like, anyone who, who knows me or has worked with me, you have to have fun. You have to enjoy the work you do. Like, you can come in and have weeks where you achieve a lot, but you didn't enjoy it.

 

Yeah. I think for me, if you don't enjoy it, it's not as powerful. You maybe have a week where you didn't quite get as much done, but you just really enjoyed it, and that's what brings you back and keeps the energy for, you know, for the next challenge and the next cycle. So for me, it's a mix of all of that, kind of, um, very important, um, philosophical stuff, but, you know, grounded in just a fun experience for people. I think you're right, and I love, like, one of my sayings, obviously, is to rediscover the joy in work. And people often don't realize, I mean, the joy in the work is in the doing w- work and the working with people. And you're right, because it c- it is fun. Like, obviously it gets hard. There is press- pressure, there is stress.

 

But if you're doing work that matters, and if you're able to do it well, if you get on with the people you work with, it can be great craic, you know? Yeah. And that will keep you going week to week, like, so I, I couldn't agree with you more.

 

It's a lot less stressful when you're having fun. And sometimes the fun is in the stress, like, people just look at each other and everyone just, you know, has, has a moment of g- you know, shared humor and like, "This is mad, isn't it?"

 

"Let's, let's just get back into it." Yeah. So I think, you know, that, that, that connection, and, and I guess the environment that allows people to have fun, and, and, you know, to be, see, like if you, if you see people around the office, b- you know, especially as we're kind of coming back together and congregating more in person, like, you know, if you look around the room and people are having some downtime and sharing a moment and some connection and some fun, that is time well spent. Oh, yeah.

 

I think that from a leadership perspective, it's important that that time is recognized as valuable and not looked at as they're not doing the work. That is how the work gets done, so... I think you're right, and it's, I suppose, a leader being a good role model in also taking the time to do that themselves- Yeah. ...

 

others see that so that it, it's important and it should be done. Um, and so, like, with that in mind, Dave, like, what you see are the, the barriers or the challenges in creating a better work day in today's workplace where a lot of people are maybe hybrid, some are maybe still remote, others are still trying to figure out what they are? Yeah, look, I, I mean, look, we're all dealing with this in different ways, right? But I think that you've, you've hit the nail on the head there. For me, the biggest challenge is that balance of flexibility with connection. Yep. That balance of personalization and people wanting to do things in a very personalized, unique way, balanced with, you know, what the organization needs, what the people around them need as well. You know, like, and hybrid and remote work are, are amazing models. Um, you know, I think we're all better off for an element of them being present. It has changed how people think about where work sits in, in their life priorities. So it does offer autonomy, but it, but it does make it harder to, to foster kind of belonging, and that informal collaboration, and fun that we talked about. It's not impossible, but you have to be so much more intentional.

 

Um, you know, so I think that, that challenge is one that we're, you know, just working through as people, as organizations, and I don't think anyone has totally cracked it or, you know, if they've cracked it for today, it doesn't mean that it's, it's solved for tomorrow either. So I think we constantly need to be looking at that.

 

And then I think just at a, you know, to move away from that 'cause I know that everyone talks about that, I, I think it's just, um, the challenge of information overload now. Oh. Like, our brains, we are not wired to process the amount of information that we get.

 

We're bombarded constantly with emails, meeting requests, s- system changes, you know, so that, that makes it really difficult for people to focus on, like, deep, impactful work.

 

Um, and I think, you know, so if we, you know, take those two things as threads, you know, what, what kind of wraps around and weaves through that is the other challenge of leadership alignment. You know, I think, you know, leaders within businesses need to be super aligned on, you know, what's important for the business and the people, and then how do we reinforce behaviors that contribute to a better work day? So, you know, as, as you've said two or three times already, really championing and leading you know, that change in a positive way visibly for people so they see it's okay. Yeah, and, and there's just a few things on that, just to touch on.

 

Like, on your first point on, on the hybrid piece and the connection, like, I've been working in hybrid setups, for most of my career since 2007, I was fortunate to be in IT teams, so I got access to the, to the dongle back when it was a dongle, uh- ...

 

you could work from home. Um, but what was interesting was, um, I'd, I'd go into the office a lot, but if I was ever feeling low or anxious or depressed,

 

I always chose to work from home more, and I outgrew. So the times that I needed...... the social interaction the most, where obviously there were times where naturally I wanted to stay at home on my own.

 

And- That sounds interesting. Yeah, it is, because obviously the day I would then have to go in, you know, when the lad's next to me, um, like Dave or Louise, whatever, would say, "Are you all right, Niamh?"

 

Yeah. Th- they'd see me. And, and I do worry about people m- and I am a, I suppose, a bit of a mother hen that way. I do worry about people dr- withdrawing too much and no one knocking on their door, you know, that kind of way.

 

Um, and it, uh, and then in terms of the information overload, I don't know if you found this, Dave, but especially when I was experimenting with ChatGPT in the early days before I figured out how to use it to support the workday- Mm-hmm. ...

 

it was almost like an information, like, adrenaline hit. So, like I'd ask it one thing, then it'd pop it out and it'd say at the end, "Do you want to do this?" I'm like, "Yeah, go on," and it'd give me more information. "Do you want to do this?" "Sure, keep on giving me information." And at the end of it, I'd have reams of information, but I'd be overloaded. I, I wouldn't know what to do with it. My head would be fried and I wouldn't be able to focus on the next thing. So I think- Yeah. ... absolutely right. We do have to start looking at

 

AI, but also notifications, the... and, and also the fact that we have all these asynchronous communication tools, but we're not communicating asynchronously. So we're using it for real-time conversation when they were designed for non-real-time information. Yeah, couldn't agree more. And I think definitely with the, like, GPT engines, the, they're...

 

the foundational skills about how to use them, you know, uh, productively and in a way that doesn't, as you said, saturate you with information. Like if you... like, what, what you can achieve with those tools in terms of the information you get back is like four, five, six, 10 hours internet browsing, which you would never do.

 

You would never want that much information. You, you quickly learn to go to the right places, ask the right questions, and get the right information, uh, in a manageable way to, to, you know, to action.

 

So I think, yeah, you can get drowned in that if you don't quickly learn. Um, and there's lots of free online resources out there, but, you know, learning, you know, good prompt engineering techniques, um, and how to manage that information retrieval I think is a key, key skill today. I couldn't agree more. Now, I want to move on because I think we could cha- talk all day actually.

 

So, um, and you've touched already in terms of how your company has helped other people create a better workday through recognition. But what I'm interested in really is, how would you create a better workday for each other as a team within your organization? So within your team,

 

David, what do you do? Um, so I think, like, we... you know, not to go back to the company and the product. But, essentially we are super users of the platform. So, you know, w- we use it, you know, exponentially more than customers will.

 

So, those behaviors are reinforced. So, you know, what that means is people are constantly recognizing and championing the things around them that have a positive impact.

 

But on, on a, on a micro level within the teams that I support, I think it goes back to that, um, those principles that we talked about at the start. It's just making sure that people have the space to be themselves on a good day, but also on a bad day. Yeah. And, uh, you know, that when we're together, those connections matter, and we have fun, and people come away going, "That was worthwhile.

 

That, that connection time today was worthwhile." Yeah. And, um, you know, we're, we're kind of fairly... Uh, you know, I'm probably the worst on, you know, keeping the meeting on track.

 

You know, I do... like if things... you know, we've o- we have objectives and we wanna get stuff done and- Mm-hmm. ... we want everyone to come away with actions and plans. But, like, there, there needs to be space in the time for convers- or in the meeting for conversations. There needs to be space for connections.

 

So I think if we just create an environment where people can, can be who they are on a good day and a bad day, you know, and that when we are together people feel better for it. I love that. And I think...

 

I'm, I'm against speedy meetings because I find that they actually cram too much work and not enough chat into it. So, David, I feel like I could talk to you all day, but obviously I like to keep these episodes short and practical.

 

So with that in mind, what one piece of advice would you give to somebody who wants to create a better workday for themselves, first of all, and then maybe for their team if they're a leader? Okay, I'm gonna try and keep this short because I tell you, you know, I have been the accused of talking too much.

 

But I think it's, it's just like... a- in essence, it's distilling everything that we've, we've been talking about here. you know, be deliberate about what matters. Mm-hmm. You know, really c- understand what matters to you. Like, I'm a It's, hu- I'm a why person. Like, uh, you know, purpose and, and meaning in the work is, is the most important thing.

 

So just find out what matters to you and be deliberate about it. So whether you're leading a team or you're an individual contributor, just focus on the things that make work more engaging. You know, recognition, clarity, human connection. They are the things for me, but, like, figure out what those things are for you.

 

And, like, you know, a great workday just... it doesn't happen by accident. It's built through, you know, continuous effort, um, creating an environment where people feel valued, supported, and empowered, and you'll get the best work and the best experience when that's in place. I think I'm gonna put that in bold and inverted commas, that a great workday doesn't happen by accident, because you're absolutely right, Dave. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Listen, it's been an absolute joy having you on The Better Workday Podcast. Thank you. Thank you for championing a better workday in what you do and through your company. And until next time, Dave, stay well and have a better workday. Thanks so much, Niamh. Have a great day. See you. Bye. Bye.

 

Thank you for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed this episode. The Better Workday Podcast is about helping you have a better workday, so we'd love to hear your thoughts and questions.

 

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